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  | Archive through July 23, 2010 | Brenda1966 | 25 | 1 | 07-23-10 2:26 pm |
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Brenda1966
Member
07-02-2002
| Friday, July 23, 2010 - 2:30 pm 
More spoilers....
I thought the one character was old and Leo's was not because the one character had died. Not sure I can explain it or it makes sense to me, but he would have been in Limbo and aged due to dying on that upper level.
Oh, and I love movies that I can't really explain, but feel I understand on some level. Still wanting to believe the ending was not a dream state for Leo (especially after all he's been through in shutter island and that other movie with Kate Winslet LOL)
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Pippin04
Member
10-26-2007
| Saturday, July 24, 2010 - 7:03 am
Spoiler.....
I thought it was a dream all through the movie this is what I caught.....
When his kids call him? He is hiding in an appartment from the law and from killers but his kids can call out of thin air to chat??????
When the van rolled why did a kick not happen? There was an inner ear thing they left out so if you fall to the side you wake up. They showed us how it worked.
Nobody bleeds when shot except the guy who is with them.
I liked the movie and the special effects. But I thought it was just ok.
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Pippin04
Member
10-26-2007
| Saturday, July 24, 2010 - 7:05 am
The kids did age....they were younger at the beach with Mol and older when playing in the yard and he could not see the faces.
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Brenda1966
Member
07-02-2002
| Saturday, July 24, 2010 - 9:23 am
I've been reading around on other boards and my head is spinning more. Spoilers, spoilers, spoilers...
Yes, they are saying the kids did age, are wearing different clothes etc. Also, that Cobb didn't have his wedding ring on in the end, but he does when he's dreaming, so implying he's not dreaming at the end (which is the ending I like).
The phone call thing didn't bother me. I figured he's living a country without extradition. Didn't he say that. For his family to have his phone number is not illogical to me.
As for the van. I had the same question and I read an explanation that kind of works for me. The "fall" or "kick" has to come from the other level.. Or else all kinds of falls (like from the avalanche) would kick you back. Also they were under that extra sedation. It doesn't fully explain it to me, but the people trying to explain it felt they had it all figured out. LOL.
And on the other board many are insistent that the entire movie is not a dream. The question is whether the ending is him in a dream or back in reality and getting what he finally wanted. I'm going with reality.
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Pippin04
Member
10-26-2007
| Saturday, July 24, 2010 - 6:27 pm
I can see that. But I guess they just triggered things in my mind that the story was a dream.
My daughter said that she noticed the ring off his finger and just assumed it was his totem.
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Pippin04
Member
10-26-2007
| Saturday, July 24, 2010 - 6:28 pm
The top was never his totem. It was Mollys.
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Brenda1966
Member
07-02-2002
| Saturday, July 24, 2010 - 7:04 pm
Agreed, it's not clear what his totem was.
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Neko
Member
08-03-2001
| Monday, July 26, 2010 - 5:52 pm
I assumed that after Mol died, the top became Cobb's totem, since he never referenced his own and always used hers to check to see if he was in reality.
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Kitt
Member
09-06-2000
| Monday, July 26, 2010 - 6:23 pm
I thought so too. It was his totem now.
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Pippin04
Member
10-26-2007
| Monday, July 26, 2010 - 9:00 pm
Jsut saw the film again.....at my daughters insistance.
I understood better why there was no kick from the van.
At the end of the film there is no ring on his hand. But they show his right hand not the left. Also throught the flim the ring appears and then disappears.
Oh hell I do not know. I think I am spending too much time on this.
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Brenda1966
Member
07-02-2002
| Monday, July 26, 2010 - 9:56 pm
Can you explain why there was no kick in the van?  When I was reading an explanation it made some sense to me, but I can't really explain it myself.
So, are you still thinking dream or reality? I don't think I'll be able to see it again until home video. I sure enjoyed it and love any film that can make me think this much about it!
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Pamy
Member
01-02-2002
| Tuesday, July 27, 2010 - 5:34 am
my son saw this and said all of his friends were pissed at the ending,due to not knowing if real or not,,i wanted to see this but dont want to sit for 2 hrs to be let down....wht do ya all think? was 14 yr old too young to get the story?
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Rissa
Member
03-19-2006
| Tuesday, July 27, 2010 - 8:03 am
Probably just a personality thing Pamy. My 13 yr old dd loved it beyond all reason and wants to go see it again with her friends so they can discuss it with her.
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Brenda1966
Member
07-02-2002
| Tuesday, July 27, 2010 - 8:09 am
I certainly think this film is worth seeing. The ending is not a cheat (think LOST, which I thought was a cheat). I suppose the ending could be open to interpretation as it wasn't definitely spelled out. But I can come to my conclusion quite easily that the ending was real.
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Pippin04
Member
10-26-2007
| Tuesday, July 27, 2010 - 8:16 am
There was no kick with the van beacuse they were already on the next level. They had to have the third level kick before the second level could have a kick.
Sticking with the ending being a dream. Some things in the film just did not make sense to me.
It is worth seeing the film.
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Brenda1966
Member
07-02-2002
| Tuesday, July 27, 2010 - 11:35 am
That makes sense Pippin. They need to be kicked from the deepest level first. thanks!
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Weinermr
Member
08-18-2001
| Tuesday, July 27, 2010 - 4:53 pm
Loved the film. It's worth seeing, though a bit draggy in spots. Ellen Page was great. The top became Cobb's totem. He got to see his children's faces at the end. The top started wobbling. That tells me the end was reality not a dream, and that's what I choose to believe.
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Brenda1966
Member
07-02-2002
| Tuesday, July 27, 2010 - 6:13 pm
Me too!
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Pamy
Member
01-02-2002
| Tuesday, July 27, 2010 - 7:03 pm
Brenda, yeah thats why I am hesitating because I dont want another Lost let down.
thanks to all of you for your opinions, I still want to see it but I think we will see Salt first
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Brenda1966
Member
07-02-2002
| Tuesday, July 27, 2010 - 7:35 pm
Pamy, I did not feel like they pulled the rug out from under me or took the easy way out with Inception. Felt totally cheated by the Lost ending, but not with this movie. And I think some of the visuals in this movie really demands it be seen on the big screen. The same could probably be said for Salt though (although I haven't seen it).
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Kitt
Member
09-06-2000
| Tuesday, July 27, 2010 - 10:07 pm
(Salt doesn't really have many big visuals, just a chase or two - was very good but doesn't really need to be seen on the big screen.)
I don't think the ending is a let down at all, that might just be a 14 year old boy needing instant gratification thing, Pamy.
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Skootz
Member
07-23-2003
| Wednesday, July 28, 2010 - 4:23 am
Watched it last night....I do think however it was a bit slower at the beginning, but they needed to give us the information for the build up to the inception. I thought it was very well done (who thinks of these ideas for movies?)
The ending - well keeps you guessing by far. I thought it was funny as the crowd in the theatre let out an "ah" when it was done.
I don't go to a lot of movies, but this one I would recommend
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Pippin04
Member
10-26-2007
| Saturday, July 31, 2010 - 4:13 pm
Chris Nolan has come out and said if you listen during the credits the top falls. It was not a dream.
I do not know how true this is.
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Brenda1966
Member
07-02-2002
| Saturday, July 31, 2010 - 10:29 pm
Yipee!!! Thanks Pippin. I wondered if he would clarify. Since you're saying you don't know if it's true I'm guessing this is just something you read on a board. No link to an article or anything?
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Pippin04
Member
10-26-2007
| Sunday, August 01, 2010 - 6:07 pm
My daughter saw him interviewed.
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Brenda1966
Member
07-02-2002
| Sunday, August 01, 2010 - 6:12 pm
Awesome! Thanks Pippin!
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Happymom
Member
01-20-2003
| Saturday, August 07, 2010 - 10:28 am
Pamy, it's a great movie and I didn't feel let down at all by the ending. My youngest dd is almost 14. She didn't get the movie/was confused. (and she is a really smart kid) She liked the effects though. It could be that part of it was that she wasn't trying to understand it because she really didn't want to go see it. (We were in San Francisco shopping and I really wanted to see it and didn't want to sit in the awful evening rush hour traffic. She said she wasn't opposed to seeing it.)
I really liked the movie, but, I wish it hadn't been so violent. I saw it in Imax, so, maybe it was louder and more violent to me than if I'd seen it in a regular theater. I think the story could have been the same and still as great w/o so much violence.
I'm really looking forward to seeing it again. My 16 yr. old dd saw it twice and liked it just as much the second time, yes, she already knew what would happen...and that took away some of the joy, but she got more out of it - a better understanding and noticing things she hadn't seen before, so, all in all, she liked it just as much the 2nd time. I will watch the credits next time I see it and listen to hear if the top topples. I did hear it wobble, which always leads to toppling, I think.
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Pamy
Member
01-02-2002
| Saturday, August 07, 2010 - 11:48 am
Thanks again for all of your input! my son said he has just told himself that it was all true and feels more satisfied! lol I will tell him about the credit thing. Good find!
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Neko
Member
08-03-2001
| Saturday, August 07, 2010 - 8:59 pm
Found this on Yahoo Answers, thought it pretty much summed up everything quite nicely.. Not mine!
quote:In dreams the Totem always spin constantly and smooth, never wobbles. At the ending, it WOBBLES -> it's REALITY. If you listen carefully after the black out [not after the credits], there's a sound of the Totem wobbling n dropped.
Cobb didn't wear a wedding ring while in reality, but he wore a wedding ring in the dreams [because in dreams he's still together with Mal]. He didn't wear it at the end.
The kids looked a bit older in the ending, & in the credits there are 2 pair of kids: Phillipa (3 yo & 5 yo), James (20 months & 3 yo). They're wearing similar outfits to the ones he remembers [in his dreams], but their shoes are different.
Remember, almost all the major of the flick has been taking place in dreams, dream time is much much slower than actual time (even slower as they go deeper into the dream). No reference about exactly how long Cobb has been away from his kids, so we can't rely to the "age of the kids" as an indication that he is in the real or dream world.
He's not dreaming all along. After his mission to get Saito's secret, Cobb sitting in his hotel room alone, spinning the Top [Mal's Totem] and watching it intently, gun in hand. He's ready to blow his brains out if the top keeps spinning, in order to “wake himself up”.
*
While Cobb & Mal in the Limbo, time is like infinity, they built their world based from their memories. Mal thinks that it's reality. She locked away a secret, deep inside herself, something she once knew to be true... but chose to forget. Mal got the idea "that they're still dreaming and need to die to escape" while they're trying to get back to reality. Cobb was saying; "You're waiting for a train. A train that will take you far away. You can't be sure where it will take you. But it doesn't matter - because we'll be together." It's his way to calm Mal while they're trying to get out from the Limbo to reality. Unfortunatelly the idea sticks in Mal's mind even after they're back in the real world.
Cobb: "What's the most resilient parasite? An Idea."
Cobb: "Never recreate from your memory. Always imagine new places."
*
To return to reality, need to get back layer by layer, one must stay awake in each level [the dreamer stays]. They need an "alarm" [the music] to synchronize time of the 'kicks'. After reaching 1st layer, they just need to wait till the time is up to wake up: before the plane landed. How they can stay in 1st layer without being attacked, I am assuming it's because Fischer thought he's actually back in reality & he's not feeling threatened, also he got relieved after getting the secret of his father's feeling towards him, maybe this has "switched off" the defense system in his mind.
Levels of dreams: 1st was the rainy day abduction in car [Yusuf's dream], 2nd in the hotel Room 528 [Arthur's dream], 3rd the snowing base in the mountain [Eames' dream], the 4th was Mal's world where Mal hid Fischer [Cobb's dream], then Cobb went further to the Limbo, to rescue Saito. When people share the same dream, when they die they'll go to the same Limbo.
At 1st level Cobb died drowning [and he also got stabbed in the 4th level too - not sure which one actually causing his death], so he also went into Limbo but that doesn't matter since he wanted to go deeper to rescue Saito anyway. That explains why he didn't instantly tell the facts when he met Saito, coz he also need time to regain his conciousness about what's real and not real.
How Cobb and Saito were able to come back? Simple, with the pistol.
Die in normal dreams -> awake from dream.
Die in dreams [under strong sedatives] -> stuck in a Limbo.
But in a Limbo, they have to die to get out, just like Cobb & Mal escaped their Limbo.
The problem is, in a Limbo people usually not aware that they're dreaming, it's feels real. They need to be reminded first that they are dreaming.
Saito: "You remind me of someone... a man I met in a half-remembered dream. He was possessed of some radical notions."
Cobb: I came here to tell you... something.
[pause]
Cobb: Something that... you once knew to be true.
Saito: [remembering] Impossible...
Saito: Dare you take a leap of faith? Or become an old man, filled with regret, waiting to die alone.
etc...
Limbo is actually unconstructed dream space – a place of raw (and random) subconscious impulse.
Limbo might not tied with levels, people might get lost into it from any levels. There's no standard about what level [or how deep] a Limbo is. Either died on 1st, 2nd, or 3rd level, goes to the same Limbo.
Well no details about "going into the above levels" from Limbo, but when Cobb & Mal escaped the Limbo, they only suicide once.
*
Was Saito truly powerful enough to make one phone call and end Cobb’s problems or was that just Cobb in limbo projecting his subconscious wish to go home? You can argue logistics all you want, but if it’s said that Saito is a powerful and wealthy man (he bought a whole airline on a whim), then there’s reason enough to infer that he could bend the legal system for Cobb. Rich powerful people bend laws all the time.
Cobb: For this to work, we'd have to buy off the pilots...
Arthur: And we'd have to buy off the flight attendants...
Saito: I bought the airline.
[Everybody turns and stares at him. Saito just shrugs]
Saito: It seemed neater.
Is there something up with that immigration agent or is he just an immigration agent? After two viewings, the conclusion should be that the immigration guy is just a guy. If he’s staring at Cobb, it’s because his job is to look people over and scrutinize them. Would you want immigration letting people through without face-to-face scrutiny?
In the airport, members of the team acknowledge one another, but they don't talk to each other coz it'd look suspicious for Fischer if everyone in the first class cabin just happened to know each other. :P Fischer also looked at Cobb, coz he recognized his face, he was talking to him when the flight begun.
*
I heard some said that people are staring at Cobb at the airport, because they're his "projections". They are not. Why? The "people" who are looking at him are his team mates and imigration person. Besides, projections would only "attack" a Dreamer when a Dreamer tries to invade a "Mark's mind". It's a defense system trying to locate who is trying to invade/intervere in the Mark's mind. If Cobb is the Dreamer, he wouln't have hisown Projections attacking himself.
Dreams feel real to us when we’re dreaming and part of the reason for that is our mind’s ability to construct a faux real-world setting for us to interact with in dreams. Often, that dream is something like a city or any populated area which has other people walking around it. in Inception, those people that the unknowing mark populates the dream world with are known as “projections.”
Projections are not part of the mark’s mind – they are manifestations of the mark’s vision of reality. If a mark has been trained to defend themselves against extractors, they have a part of their subconscious which is always on guard against mind-crime in the form of militarized security which attack mind invaders.
Example:
1. When Cobb brought Ariadne enters his dream. Ariadne changed the surroundings, creating paradox. The projections started to "attack" her because she's messing in Cobb's dream.
2. In the second layer, Arthur's dream at the hotel. When Cobb approach to Fisher and start telling him that he's actually in a dream, once Fischer started to become aware, the projections started to look around, looking for the dreamer who invaded him as the Mark. Arthur and Ariadne were sitting in other part of the hotel when the people around them started to look at them [in this case Arthur].
Cobb: There's one thing you should know about me. I specialize in a very specific type of security, subconscious security.
Fischer: You're talking about Dreams?
Arthur: Quick, give me a kiss!
[She kisses him and then looks around]
Ariadne: They're still looking at us.
Arthur: Yeah, it's worth a shot.
*
About why Cobb's Dad was in the States, this explained when Cobb called his kids, said he'll send gifts through the grandfather. When Cobb visits his Dad in the school, he drops off presents & asks him to give them to the kids when he goes back, this implied that his Dad flies to the States once in a while. No exact reason why the grandmother not showing up as soon as Cobb arrived, probably because she was so bitter & once believed that Cobb would never return.
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Brenda1966
Member
07-02-2002
| Monday, August 09, 2010 - 11:47 am
Thanks for posting that Neko. Much of it made my head spin, but the final paragraph about why the grandfather was there was very helpful. I had a friend use that as an argument for it being a dream. I'm firmly in the non-dream camp, and this helps!
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Vsmart
Member
02-10-2003
| Tuesday, August 24, 2010 - 12:52 am
Ariadne gave Theseus the ball of yarn to find his way back out of the Labyrinth. Read the short story that was the basis of the movie Total Recall. He thought his memories of Mars were not real, but that he paid for them for a cheaper vacation. Instead the blocking of the real memories was wearing off.
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